The casting and administrator of ‘The Aftermost Jedi’ on the story’s secrets, a antagonistic Skywalker and a afterlife in the family
The casting and administrator of ‘The Aftermost Jedi’ on the story’s secrets, a antagonistic Skywalker and a afterlife in the family
A continued time ago, a grade-schooler got his calmly on a spaceship. He followed the accumulation instructions as best he could, snapping on the cannons, the landing gear, the tiny interstellar-chess table. Soon enough, Rian Johnson was captivation his actual own Millennium Falcon. “The aboriginal affair I did,” he recalls, “was bandy it beyond the room, to see how it would attending flying.” He grins. “And it broke.”
Johnson grew up, went to blur school, fabricated some acceptable stuff, including the entertainingly askance 2012 sci-fi ball Looper. He’s about 44 now, admitting his cherub cheeks and affable address accomplish it accessible to annual the kid he was (too easy, maybe – he’s aggravating to abound aback a bristles he shaved); alike his neatly apprenticed short-sleeve accepted has a picture-day feel. In backward October, he’s sitting in an appointment apartment central Disney’s Burbank studios that he’s alleged home for abounding months, area a whiteboard declares, “We’re alive on Brilliant Wars: The Aftermost Jedi (in case you forgot).” Johnson is the film’s writer-director, which agency he concluded up with the world’s finest accumulating of backup toys, including a life-size Falcon set that about brought him to tears aback he stepped assimilate it. He advised it all with what sounds like an arresting mix of admiration and atrocity – casting associates accumulate adage annihilation was absolutely what they expected. “I befuddled up the box a little bit,” he says, with that aforementioned grin.
Meanwhile, aback in the absolute world, aggregate is broken. In the months aback the authorization afflicted aback to activity in 2015’s The Force Awakens, it has acquainted rather like some bold adolescent affective acculturation itself and threw it beyond the allowance – and, midflight, abounding of us accomplished we were the angry Empire all along, complete with a new adjudicator that alike latter-day George Lucas at his best CGI-addled would adios as too aberrant and doubtful a character.
Weirdly, the adventure saw it all advancing – or maybe it’s not so awe-inspiring aback you accede the Vietnam War annotation anchored in Lucas’ aboriginal trilogy, or the warnings about democracy’s airiness in his prequels. In the J.J. Abrams-directed The Force Awakens, a revanchist movement calling itself the Aboriginal Adjustment assembles in Celebration of the Will-style marches, assuming the abominable backbone of an credo that was declared to accept been thoroughly defeated continued ago. What’s larboard of the government is annoyed and feckless, so the alone achievement in afterimage is a bandage of acceptable guys accepted as the Resistance. Familiar, this all sounds.
“It’s somewhat a absorption of society,” acknowledges the saga’s new star, Daisy Ridley, who plays Rey, and who has gone from alien London extra to absolute cine brilliant about as fast as her appearance went from arid scavenger to alpha Jedi. “But additionally it is escapism, because there are creatures and there are bodies active about with fucking lasers and shit. So, I think, a admirable mix of both.”
And the worse the apple gets, the added we charge that abroad galaxy, says Gwendoline Christie, who plays stormtrooper ambassador Captain Phasma (as able-bodied as Game of Thrones’ Brienne of Tarth): “During testing times, there’s annihilation amiss with actuality transported by art. I anticipate we all charge it. Abounding of us are affiliated in our adulation for this one thing.”
The Aftermost Jedi, due December 15th, is the additional adventure of the accepted trilogy, and beforehand chat has appropriate that, as in the aboriginal average film, The Empire Strikes Back, things get darker this time. But Johnson pushes aback on that, admitting he does accept some access from the about cryptic 2000s reboot of Battlestar Galactica (which is funny, because Lucas advised the Seventies TV appearance a cheat and apprenticed a accusation – continued aback acclimatized – adjoin it). “That’s one affair I achievement bodies will be afraid about with the movie,” Johnson says. “I anticipate it’s actual funny. The trailers accept been affectionate of aphotic – the cine has that, but I additionally fabricated a absolute acquainted accomplishment for it to be a riot. I appetite it to accept all the things tonally that I accessory with Brilliant Wars, which is not aloof the Wagner of it. It’s additionally the Flash Gordon.”
As of backward October, about no one has apparent it yet, but Johnson seems eerily chargeless of alarm about its prospects. He exuded a agnate calm on set, according to Adam Driver, who plays Han and Leia’s Darth Vader-worshipping dissipated son, Kylo Ren. “If I had that job, I would be fatigued out,” he says. “To aces up area addition larboard off and backpack it forward, but additionally acquaint a cant that hasn’t been apparent in a Brilliant Wars cine before, is a alpine adjustment and absolutely adamantine to get right. He’s abundantly acute and doesn’t feel the charge to let anybody apperceive it.” (“It acquainted like we were arena the accomplished time,” says Kelly Marie Tran, casting as the bigger new character, Rose Tico.) A few weeks afterwards we talk, Lucasfilm announces that Johnson active on to accomplish three added Brilliant Wars films in the advancing decade, the aboriginal that footfall alfresco of the prevailing Skywalker saga, advertence that Disney and Lucasfilm dame Kathleen Kennedy are added than captivated with Aftermost Jedi. And Kennedy’s not calmly delighted, accepting afresh replaced the admiral of a Han Abandoned aftereffect midshoot and removed aboriginal Adventure 9 administrator Colin Trevorrow in favor of Abrams’ return.
The Force Awakens’ bigger celebration was the addition of new characters annual caring about, led by Rey and Kylo Ren, additional the brand of John Boyega’s stormtrooper-defector Finn, Oscar Isaac’s Poe Dameron and more. Kylo Ren (born Ben Solo) lightsaber-shanked Harrison Ford’s Han, depriving Johnson of one coveted activity amount – but the blur larboard us with Carrie Fisher’s Angel Leia, now the accepted who leads the Resistance, and the acute accede of Mark Hamill’s now-grizzled Luke Skywalker.
The Aftermost Jedi will be Fisher’s aftermost Brilliant Wars movie. In the crumbling canicule of the atrocious year of 2016, she went into cardiac arrest on an airplane, dying four canicule later. Beneath than a ages afterward, 500,000 or so bodies accumulated in Washington, D.C., for that city’s Women’s March, and Leia was everywhere, in posters address her doughnut-haired angel about 1977, with accompanying slogans (“A Woman’s Abode Is in the Resistance” was, perhaps, the best).
Johnson had developed abutting with Fisher, and is activated to apprehend that I visited her psychedelically active Beverly Hills abode a brace of years back, area she did about an absolute agreeable annual decumbent in bed. Afterward, she acquiescently cool jokes about drugs and brainy affliction in advanced of a visiting Disney publicist. “You got to acquaintance a little bit of that bewitched apple that she created,” says Johnson, who went over the calligraphy with her in that aforementioned bedroom. “I’m blessed I got to blow my arch into that, briefly, and apperceive her alike a little bit.”
He larboard her allotment in the blur untouched. “We didn’t end up alteration a thing,” says Johnson. “Luckily, we had a absolutely complete achievement from her.” So it is now Abrams who has to amount out how to attack with Fisher and Leia’s abrupt absence. (He is artlessly adage on the matter: “It’s a sad reality,” he says. “In agreement of activity advanced … time will acquaint what ends up accepting done.”)
Overall, Johnson enjoyed what seems like an about abysmal akin of freedom in abstraction The Aftermost Jedi’s story. He says no one dictated a distinct artifice point, that he artlessly absitively what happens next. And he’s baffled by admirers who are anxious by the abstraction that they’re “making it up as we go along”: “The accuracy is, belief are fabricated up! Whether somebody fabricated this accomplished affair up 10 years ago and put it on a whiteboard and we all accept to stick to that, or whether we’re organically award it as we move forward, it doesn’t beggarly that any beneath anticipation is actuality put into it.”
Mark Hamill’s distinct arena in The Force Awakens lasts all of one minute, and he doesn’t say a thing. But it’s an enduring allotment of awning acting with absolute gravitas, from an underrated aerialist who had become bigger accepted for Broadway and annotation assignment – he’s been the absolute activated Joker aback the aboriginal Nineties. (“With voice-over,” Hamill says, “I thought, ‘This is great! I can let myself go to hell physically! I don’t accept to acquire lines!'”) As Rey approaches him on the abandoned mountaintop where’s he’s allegedly spent years belief the Jedi agnate of the Talmud, Luke Skywalker’s barbate face cycles through grief, alarm and longing.
“I didn’t attending at that as ‘Oh, this is activity to be my big chance,'” says Hamill, who has aloof apparent up at Johnson’s offices and plopped bottomward abutting to him, accustomed a ample thermos of coffee in the appropriate duke that Darth Vader already chopped off. He has a trimmed-down adaptation of his elder-Jedi beard, which he’s developed to appreciate: “I shaved, and I thought, ‘You apperceive what, the bristles does awning up the jowl.'”
Hamill is a charming, afraid chatterbox – turns out that alike at his youngest and prettiest, he was a beatnik trapped in the anatomy of a aureate boy. He is agitable and afire abundant to accord the ambiguous faculty that, like Luke, he absolutely ability accept spent a few aloof years on a abroad planet, and is still readjusting to Earth life, or at atomic cine stardom.
He admits to accepting had “frustrations over actuality over-associated” with Brilliant Wars over the years – his Skywalking amount him a adventitious at alike auditioning to reprise his date role as Mozart in the blur of Amadeus – “but annihilation that acquired me any abysmal anguish.” He still spent the decades aback Acknowledgment of the Jedi acting and adopting a ancestors with Marilou, his wife of 39 years. And as for his accepted acknowledgment to the role of Luke? “It’s a acme of my career,” he says. “If I focused on how astronomic it absolutely is, I don’t anticipate I could function. I told Rian that. I said, as cool as it sounds, ‘I’m activity to accept to pretend this is an art-house blur that no one is activity to see.’ “
“It’s somewhat a absorption of society. But additionally it is escapism, because there are creatures and there are bodies active about with fucking lasers and shit. So, I think, a admirable mix of both.”-Daisy Ridley
For his Force Awakens scene, he says, “I didn’t apperceive – and I don’t anticipate J.J. absolutely knew – accurately what had happened in those 30 years. Honestly, what I did was try and accord J.J. a ambit of options. Neutral, suspicion, agnosticism … demography advantage of the actuality that it’s all thoughts. I adulation watching bashful films. Anticipate of how able they could be afterwards dialogue.”
Abrams had some agitation over the abstraction of handing Hamill a calligraphy with such a tiny role. “The aftermost affair I capital to do was insult a adolescence hero,” he says, “but I additionally knew it was potentially one of the abundant drumrolls of all time.” In fact, Hamill’s aboriginal acknowledgment was, “What a rip-off, I don’t get to run about the Afterlife Brilliant bumping active with Carrie and Harrison anymore!”
But he came to accede with Abrams, abnormally afterwards he counted the cardinal of times Luke was mentioned in the cine – he thinks it was added than 50: “I don’t appetite to say, ‘That’s the greatest access in accurate history’ . . . but absolutely the greatest access of my career.”
Johnson turns to Hamill. “Did I anytime acquaint you that aboriginal on aback I was aggravating to amount out the adventure for this,” he says, “I had a abrupt abstraction I was block area I was like, ‘What if Luke is blind? What if he’s, like, the dark samurai?’ But we didn’t do it. You’re welcome. Didn’t stick.” (He adds that this was afore a dark Force-using appearance showed up in 2016’s ancillary blur Rogue One.)
Hamill laughs, briefly advertent how boxy that aberration would’ve been: “Luke, not too abutting to the cliff!”
He had a adamantine abundant time with the storyline Johnson absolutely created for Luke, who is now what the amateur calls a “disillusioned” Jedi. “This is not a blithesome adventure to tell,” Hamill says, “my allocation of it.” Johnson confirms that Hamill apace told him at the alpha that he disagreed with the administration Luke’s appearance was taking. “We afresh started a conversation,” says Johnson. “We went aback and forth, and afterwards accepting to explain my version, I adapted it. And I had to absolve it to myself, and that concluded up actuality abundantly useful. I acquainted actual abutting to Mark by the end. Those aboriginal canicule of butting active and afresh advancing together, that action consistently brings you closer.”
Hamill pushed himself to brainstorm how Luke could’ve gotten to his abode of alienation. A bedrock fan who’s buddies with the Kinks’ Dave Davies, Hamill started cerebration about burst hippie dreams as he watched a Beatles documentary. “I was audition Ringo allocution about ‘Well, in those days, it was accord and love.’ And how it was a movement that abundantly didn’t work. I anticipation about that. Aback in the day, I thought, by the time we get into power, there will be no added wars. Pot will be legal.” He smiles at that part. “I believed all that. I had to use that activity of abortion to chronicle to it.” (We do already apperceive that Luke was training a agglomeration of Jedi, and Kylo Ren angry on him.)
Hamill’s affliction over the accident of Fisher is still fresh, abnormally aback the two of them got to renew their bond, and their space-sibling squabbling, afterwards dormant decades that had accustomed them far beneath affidavit to get together. “There was now a abundance akin that she had with me,” he says, “that I wasn’t out to get annihilation or aggravating to hustle her in any way. I was the aforementioned actuality that I was aback she knew me. … I was array of the square, antediluvian brother, and she was the wild, brash Auntie Mame.” Promoting the cine is bringing it all aback for him. “I aloof can’t angle it,” he says. “She’s admirable in the movie. But it adds a band of blue we don’t deserve. I’d adulation the affections to appear from the story, not from absolute life.”
I acknowledgment how adamantine Luke seems to accept had it: never affair his mom; award the burnt corpses of the aunt and uncle who aloft him; those acclaimed amoroso issues; the afterwards years of isolation. “It’s the activity of a hero, man,” says Johnson. “That’s what you’ve gotta do to be a hero. You’ve gotta watch bodies that you adulation bake to death!”
Hamill addendum that absoluteness is not so abundant either. “Sometimes,” he says, softer than usual, “you think, ‘I’d rather accept Luke’s activity than mine.'”
Adam Driver has a catechism for me. “What,” he asks, “is emo?”
Between training for the Marines and training at Juilliard to become one of his generation’s best amazing actors, Driver absent some stuff, including absolute music genres. But the blow of the apple (including an agreeable apology Twitter account) absitively there’s article audibly emo about his character, with his abundant hair, atramentous apparel and alternate atmosphere tantrums. “You accept addition who’s actuality told that he’s appropriate his accomplished life,” Driver says of his character, “and he can feel it. And he feels aggregate allegedly added acutely than the bodies about him, you know?”
As anyone who’s apparent Driver in about anything, alike Girls, could acquaint you, the amateur himself seems to feel things added acerb than most. “I don’t anticipate of myself as a decidedly acute person,” he says, possibly not blind that he is authoritative acute eye contact, and that his appropriate knee is bouncing up and bottomward with balance energy. “I get affected about assertive things and, like, adore the action of alive on something.” He’s in a Brooklyn cafe, on a tree-lined street, that seems to be his go-to atom for interviews. He accustomed early, alpha from cutting the new Spike Lee movie, cutting a dark-blue sweater over atramentous jeans and high-top Adidas. Driver has a authoritativeness to him, a animate core, that’s a little intimidating, admitting his accessible affability and big, near-constant laugh. It’s not clashing talking to Harrison Ford, who played his dad. Until Driver’s appearance murdered him.
Driver, aloft by his mom and preacher stepdad afterwards his parents afar aback he was seven, doesn’t avoid aback I advance his own ancestor issues ability be at work. “I don’t apperceive that it’s consistently that literal,” he says. He mentions that Kylo Ren additionally murders Max Van Sydow’s character, who was array of a “distant uncle” to him. “No one asks me, ‘So you accept a distant-uncle problem?’ “
John Boyega told me in 2015 that Driver backward in appearance on set, but that seems to be not absolutely true. Driver aloof tries to accumulate focused on his character’s affections in the face of an ambiance he can’t advice but acquisition ridiculous. “Watching Brilliant Wars, it’s an action-adventure,” he says. “But cutting it, it’s a beeline comedy. Stormtroopers aggravating to acquisition a bathroom. Bodies dressed as trolls, like, active into doorways. It’s hilarious.” And aback he wears his helmet, he can’t see actual well. “You’re declared to be actual stealth, and a timberline basis takes you down.”
“It’s not like bodies weren’t active on the Afterlife Brilliant … isn’t that additionally an act of terrorism? Did they not accept families? I see how bodies can point to examples that accomplish themselves feel they’re right.”-Adam Driver
He refuses to see his appearance as bratty. “There is a little bit of an elitist, ability affair activity on,” he says, reminding us that the character’s conflicting mom is “the princess. I anticipate he’s acquainted of maybe the privilege.” He does accede arena Kylo Ren adolescent than his own age of 34: “I don’t appetite to say how abundant younger, ’cause bodies will apprehend into it. . . .” He flushes, and afterwards says he abjure advertence it at all. If it’s a artifice spoiler, it’s cryptic absolutely how, unless it’s accompanying to his alien affiliation to Rey. The two allegedly absorb austere time calm in this film. “The accord amid Kylo and Rey is awesome,” says Ridley, whom Driver calls a “great arena partner,” allegedly one of his accomplished compliments.
At first, Driver wasn’t absolutely abiding he capital to be in a Brilliant Wars movie. I’m consistently agnostic of Hollywood movies because they’re mostly aloof too broad,” he says. But Abrams’ pitch, emphasizing the appearance of Kylo Ren’s appearance as a conflicted villain, fabricated the sale. “Everything about him from the alfresco is advised to activity the angel that he’s assured,” he says. Alone in clandestine can he accede “how un-figured-out he is … how weak.”
Driver can accomplish a amorous case for why Kylo Ren isn’t absolutely a villain at all.
“It’s not like bodies weren’t active on the Afterlife Star,” he says, his amber eyes alive from puppyish to angry afterwards warning. He seems about in appearance now. “Isn’t that additionally an act of agitation adjoin the hundreds of bags of bodies who died there? Did they not accept families? I see how bodies can point to examples that accomplish themselves feel they’re right. And aback you feel in your basic that you’re accurate by a academy ability on top of that, and you’re about right, there’s no absolute to what you’ll do to accomplish abiding that you win. Both abandon feel this way.”
You’re starting to allocution me into abutting the Empire, I say. He action and accouterment his commitment one amount over the top. “So, the rebels are bad,” he says, abutting his anchor with the table. “I acerb accept this!”
On an abundantly backing Thursday black in Montreal, I’m sitting at crowded, blatant Le Vin Papillon, a wine bar ranked as Canada’s fourth-best restaurant, captivation a bench for a Jedi. Ridley arrives appropriate on time, in a down-covered faux-fur covering and a jumper dress – “the dregs of my wardrobe,” she says. Her shortish beard is in a Rey-ish bunch that makes her way too recognizable, but she doesn’t care. “This is how I accept consistently had my hair,” says Ridley. “I am not activity to change it.” She’s been in Montreal for three months, cutting a Doug Liman-directed sci-fi cine alleged Chaos Walking – which “is a little bit chaotic, in that we’re autograph as we go and everything,” she says. “I’ve accomplished I don’t assignment able-bodied with that.”
She’s on the additional of two abrupt canicule off acknowledgment to co-star Tom Holland (a.k.a the latest Spider-Man) adversity an impacted acumen tooth, but she’s still acutely exhausted.
“I charge a [vitamin] B attempt in my ass,” she muses, in the affectionate of flush British emphasis that makes blame complete elegant. It seems already bright that allocation won’t affectation the affectionate of botheration for her that it did for the brand of Hamill and Fisher. Instead, she’s aloof active in a way that alone a afresh minted 25-year-old cine brilliant could be – and she still managed to accomplish a pre-fame plan to go aback to academy for a division aftermost year. “I accept no ascendancy in my activity at all,” she says. She has four movies on the way, not alike counting the Liman one. “So there is a lot activity on, and I accept never had to accord with that before. I don’t anticipate my academician can absolutely accumulate up with what is activity on.” She has absolute night terrors: “I deathwatch up and scream.”
Rey had an alternate moment in the aftermost movie, claiming her lightsaber from the albino ground, and with it, her power, her destiny, her abode at the centermost of the narrative. Her turn. Ridley is still arresting what that moment, and that character, beggarly to women and little girls. But she absolutely acquainted added burden this time around, abnormally because aftermost time, “it was all so insane, it acquainted like a dream,” she says. “I bethink adage to Rian, ‘I am so fucking aberrant on this one.’ I was like, ‘I am activity to fuck this up. All these bodies anticipate this thing. How do I do that thing?’ “
Part of the botheration may accept been Ridley’s addiction to downplay what she pulled off in the aboriginal movie. Her heart-tugging abandoned scenes in the aboriginal act, abnormally the moment area she eats her sad little “one bisected portion” of blooming amplitude bread, created astronomic goodwill, in seconds, for a appearance no one had apparent before. She mentions Harrison Ford’s effusive acclaim for that bistro scene, to the point area he was “getting emotional.” “I don’t know,” she says with a shrug, ultimately giving acclaim for the appulse to Abrams and the movie’s cinematographer, Dan Mindel. “I was aloof eating!”
But in added ways, Rey has accustomed her confidence. On her accepted film, she says, she was offered a achievement bifold for a arena area a aperture would beat accessible and beating her back. She took Liman abreast and said, “‘Doug, I don’t charge a achievement bifold to do that.’ And I thought, ‘I don’t apperceive if this would’ve happened if it was Tom Holland.'”
Unlike about anybody abroad in the world, Ridley has accepted for years who Rey’s parents are, aback Abrams told her on the set of The Force Awakens. Ridley believes that annihilation anytime changed: “I anticipation what I was told in the alpha is what it is.” Which is odd, because Johnson insists he had chargeless rein to appear up with any acknowledgment he capital to the question. “I wasn’t accustomed any charge as to what that had to be,” he says. “I was never accustomed the advice that she is this or she is that.”
The abstraction that Johnson and Abrams somehow landed on the aforementioned acknowledgment does assume to advance that Rey’s parents aren’t some random, never-before-seen characters. All that said, Abrams cryptically hints there may accept been added allocation amid him and Johnson than the closing administrator has let on, so who knows what’s activity on actuality – they may be messing with us to bottle one of Abrams’ adored abstruseness boxes. In any case, Ridley loves the speculation: Her admired fan theories absorb bright apperception and time travel. It seems added acceptable that she’s either Luke’s babe or his niece, but again, who knows.
Back in 2015, Ridley told me she was accomplished with the abstraction of actuality apparent as Rey forever, the way Fisher was consistently Leia. Now she’s afflicted her mind. “There are actually no similarities with Carrie’s adventure and mine,” she says, abacus that while Fisher ultimately accepted autograph over acting, she affairs on continuing to “inhabit” as abounding characters as possible. On the added hand, “a lot of Rey is me,” she says, “but that is not me actuality Rey. That is genitalia of me actuality a appearance as Rey, because how could it not? So in that sense, I accept it, because so abundant of Leia is Carrie.”
This leash will end with Abrams’ Aftermost Jedi sequel, and afterwards that, it sounds like the capital advance of the authorization will move into Johnson’s abstruse new movies, which attending to be alone to the antecedent saga. As Abrams sees it, that will be the end of the Skywalker story. “I do see it that way,” he says. “But the approaching is in flux.”
As far as Ridley is concerned, the approaching of Rey is appealing abundant set. She doesn’t appetite to comedy the appearance afterwards the abutting movie. “No,” she says flatly. “For me, I didn’t absolutely apperceive what I was signing on to. I hadn’t apprehend the script, but from what I could tell, it was absolutely nice bodies involved, so I was aloof like, ‘Awesome.’ Now I anticipate I am alike luckier than I knew then, to be allotment of article that feels so like advancing home now.”
But, um, doesn’t that array of complete like a yes? “No,” she says again, animated a little. “No, no, no. I am really, absolutely aflame to do the third affair and annular it out, because ultimately, what I was signing on to was three films. So in my head, it’s three films. I anticipate it will feel like the appropriate time to annular it out.”
And how about advancing aback in 30 years, as her predecessors did? She considers this soberly, amid bites of Brussels sprouts broiled on the stalk. (We breach the dish, which agency she got … one bisected portion.) “Who knows? I candidly feel like the apple may end in the abutting 30 years, so, if in 30 years we are not active underground in a alternation of commutual beef … afresh sure. Maybe. But again, it’s like, who knows. Because the affair I anticipation was so amazing, was bodies absolutely capital it. And it was done by bodies who absolutely adulation it.”
She thinks alike harder about it, this new Brilliant Wars leash that we’ve fabricated up on the spot. “How old will I be?” she asks, afore accomplishing the math. “55.” She looks actual adolescent for a moment, as she tries to annual herself as a middle-aged Jedi. Afresh she gives up. It’s time to go, anyway; she has a 5:25 a.m. auto tomorrow for her new movie. “Fuck,” Ridley says. “I can’t anticipate that far ahead.”
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